This problem isn’t that the keys exist (but keys existence was talked in my other topic). Read on.
So. I was bored and it just hapened that I was using my laptop (because there was a storm and this device is like a bedrock) so I launched CIU. Thanks to some meeting (Planeteers, unite! - #20) I was stuck in planet that had mission that seemed like a fun minute. Difficulty max level and only 6 waves. Why not. Man, it destroyed me, but the worst part is that you couldn’t collect many keys if you wanted to survive.
My point is that, there should be guaranteed keys prize. Also there should be key reward for killing a boss. Right, some bosses spawn chickens that can have a key, but I feel like it’s too much and some bosses don’t have that. So maybe 2 keys for killing a boss would be good.
I think we shouldn’t necessarily add uncircumstantial keys for every boss; one of the challenges in the game is having the skill to maneuver and dodge projectiles while collecting keys if you want better spoils. The problem with this mission is that it’s one of those Squawk Block missions that inherently have highly limited movement added as a challenge, so it’d be just better to add guaranteed key drops after each wave in Squawk Blocks like Boss Rushes or Comet Chases instead of giving free keys on any boss or after completing any mission.
Keys are not even close to being a challenge. They are boring grind mechanic which nobody knows why they got in CI series. Maybe in CI4 and CI5 they could be described the way you did because they weren’t need to play. However CIU is built around using the keys and you can’t travel to different star systems (not that you need to as I said many times) and also you can’t buy anything (including lives that matter very much for gameplay).
As I said above CIU is built around the keys. So guaranteed prize after beating level is needed. Imagine someone playing a mission and not having a chance to grab any of they keys. He gained nothing from the mission and gets a shiny gold text “0 keys”. That’s outrageous.
I didn’t say keys are fun or a gameplay element that is not grindy, but they’re something that you can get more of during missions if you have higher skills. A person that could catch 5 keys during a Yolk-Star fight is more skilled than someone who couldn’t get any on the same difficulty, and more keys means easier and more spending.
If someone wants to prevent that from happening, they should probably get a little bit better at the game. They could for example prioritize targets, collect the keys that drop before they disappear or maybe use SSH. If we’re still just talking about Squawk Block missions, then I completely agree with you. I’d argue Darkness missions also need a mechanic like this; but not getting a chance to collect keys during other missions never happens, not even on elite Invasions. If the mission is too short and the game doesn’t spawn keys, then using a higher skill level may be necessary. If you don’t have keys to buy skill levels, do longer missions on a low skill setting. If you can’t find a long mission or something like a Comet Chase that give you a ton of keys, sell food items (which are, in their own way, guaranteed keys for certain missions). So on and so forth.
However if IA likes this idea, then they might implement it sooner or later. I’m simply providing an argument as to why it’s not necessary to add such a thing.
Also just saw your edit. I’m trying to give the best response as I can and that might take a while, especially for someone whose first language isn’t English. Sorry if I come off as too much of a try-hard.
Or just more lucky. Let’s remember that keys have a chance to appear at any time and any object even if it’s not possible to get to them (without dying).
I agree with that, because I personally am the try-hard gamer. However, let’s remember that CI games main target are casual players. Someone that launches the game just to play and not worry about challenge.
Well, I’m talking about general rewards, but this also should be added.
Yeah. And what if someone belongs to group of the casual players?
I guess that’s right.
Still, food seems like a joke in CIU. It’s just a currency to exchange to another currency. Maybe if there was something that you can only get with food it would have a reason to exist and be more practical
I wish for sooner. It’s been ~245 days since the release of first version and we still don’t know how long until end of early access or even what is missing from the release. Something like a roadmap would be very much welcome to see.
Yeah, I understand it. I’m also doing it this way so I just tried to lighten the conversation so it doesn’t seem as violent discussion.
I feel like I wrote the same thing, but here’s what I was thinking about.
In mission select screen you have now (I don’t know from what version, when I was complaining about it, it didn’t have it and then I missed it) possibility to check how long is the mission. It’s in form of nXm where m determines number of waves in a chapter and n determines how many chapters there will be. So what I was thinking about is that n number also should determine the keys. So if you pick a 4x7 mission it gives you 4 keys if you beat all 4 chapters. I think 1 key for chapter is enough, but we can discuss the possibility of 2.
Also about the boss reward. 1-2 keys for beating every boss is cool, but the existing bosses also need to be tweaked when it comes to keys. Look at henterprise, it spawns the chickens that can have keys. And you know what’s the worst thing about it? That IA knows about it and instead of tweaking it they just leave it as it is and they are calling it an exploit - Exploit & cheating policy. It’s not an exploit, it’s just how you programmed the game to behave. You have full control about every aspect of the game (or nearly every because engines can be a pain, but you can’t convince me that you can’t control how the boss behaves).
tl;dr
Remove the chance to spawn the keys in every existing boss fight, but add a 1-2 key reward for killing the boss.
Wait, so there’s only one spaceship that let’s you see the keys in darkness missions? I thought it was universal to every type.
Keys appearing is random, but your ability to get them is not governed by luck (…mostly at least). I think you got what I was trying to convey, so I’ll not repeat.
I agree with your points about casual players, but there are currently a lot more issues that prevent new players from getting attracted to the game that goes beyond key collecting but that would be another topic.
If we were to have guaranteed keys per mission, they would either have to be just a few so that all those multipliers wouldn’t give you way more keys than intended, or increased pricing should be done for items (at least in the Galactic Store) so that there would be a balance. And if we want true uncircumstantial keys after a level, they shouldn’t drop from a boss as they could disappear if the mission is finished right afterwards. Receiving keys after the mission is completed is simpler.
Also, why make base keys (if they get into the game) depend on chapters and not waves? This way, someone who finishes a 4x7 gets more keys than someone who did a 4x5 rather than the same amount.
The balancing of all these should take quite some time and maybe that explains why it isn’t here now.
Yeah, there are issues. For me there are many issues in CIU (but I already wrote about it so I don’t wanna repeat). The thing is that maybe it’s time to get on small details.
1 (or 2) per chapter isn’t that much.
That kind of defeats the purpose of adding guaranteed keys.
Is it how that works? I mean there are boss rushes and keys don’t disappear when you finish the mission. Or you must be extremely slow to make it happen. (and that’s worth of achievement because there’s no danger and it involves 0 skill to collect them).
I don’t know if simpler, but it’s not much satisfying. Yeah, it could work with keys for completing the chapter, but bosses should drop it the normal way.
Because it is so much more easier to calculate and it isn’t giving too much keys (we’re talking about the base keys so they can have a multiplier and it makes players using higher skill earn more). Yes, you can give 1 key for clearing 2 waves, but what if someone completes 5 waves? Do you round it up or down? And what if it was 1 key for 3 waves?
Cmon, it’s nearly 1 year since the post that I linked about boss rewards. Guaranteed prizes are new topic, but it’s not exactly that hard to balance. You just need to think about it for some time and maybe even test it in the game. I feel like everybody here on the forum forgets that CIU is an early access, open beta, spin-off game and you can’t have better combo to test new things.
The increase in prices could just be a fraction to not fully mitigate the changes.
After the final wave of a mission, collectibles (food, presents, keys, etc.) disappear after some time and this is not a problem for Müller and H&C ships, but it is a problem for Bombers, especially on zoomed-out bosses (this has happened to me a few times.).
What’s wrong with giving a set amount of keys for each wave? Like how food items give you keys (~0.07 keys per item if I’m not mistaken) and then rounded to the closest number. For example 0.4 keys per wave. This would mean a 4x5 mission will have 8 base keys which is equal to giving 1 key for one stage and one key for each boss, while a 4×7 mission will have 11.2 base keys (which will be calculated as 11) which is (rightfully) more than what a 4x5 mission would give.
On another note, I wasn’t giving excuses on behalf of IA not adding such a thing, just giving my thoughts.
I don’t want to ruin the discussion but…
Isn’t active a huge key multiplier for the whole beta test period?
I think that we should take it into account too
If only I got the keys to test every spaceship in the game.
I feel like it’s fine the way it is. We’re not talking about big number of the keys. Just small rewards.
Okay, so we can increase the time to collect things or make the mission end only after collecting last things. I didn’t know that bombers have such a problem. I only played experimental flight test and I managed to collect everything.
It’s too much. It’s supposed to be a little guaranteed reward which still encourages players to try and collect the keys.
I was thinking that maybe receiving such a low number of keys wouldn’t be big enough to warrant a change in the way mission rewards work. And if we’re still talking about casual players not getting the grindy impression of collecting keys or being disappointed that certain missions don’t give you the keys that are worth the amount of time you spent, then maybe more keys wouldn’t be too bad; just a minor balancing would be needed.
Or we can simply make base rewards be added after the mission is done. This way we wouldn’t need to revert a change that was recently made.
