Anyone else notice riddler is a bit strong?

So i’ve been inactive in this community for several months, because what I always do is overplay 1 to 3 games at once (right now I play this game which is unreleased, a beta of SYNTHETIK: Legion Rising which is also unreleased, and Creeper World 4 which just dropped a few days ago). The select few games that i’m playing changes every few weeks.

But anyway when I got back here I noticed some weird things about the combat in this game. Most weapons overheat slower, and if I double click they have about double fire rate. I generally don’t like this mechanic because you get a strong DPS increase for technically no penalty, same heat per damage and you can do it as much as you like. There’s kinda never a reason to not use it. Though it does make the game more fun, because the vibe has shifted a little bit away from “slowly kill things while dodging their stuff” and closer too “quickly kill things before they can kill you”. And I usually like games with the latter vibe.

I also recorded some of this absurdity:
If you want to watch the entire 17.5 minute video, but i doubt anyone’s actually gonna do that

Same video but skips to the end where I use my mjolnir, lasts 1.5 minutes

DPS didn’t change much since overdrive mechanic (this “double click” thing) was introduced, neither overheat. This was introduced to help mobile players in future and people who can’t click fast enough to make chances more fair in competitive missions. Also, when you shoot with overdrive, your weapon overheats twice faster than usual too.

And yes, there are lots of people who dislike overdrive and prefer manual fire to it.


And yes, there are lots of people who dislike overdrive and prefer manual fire to it.

My issue isn’t that it’s autofire. My issue is that overdrive is just regular fire but better. You said overdrive overheats faster but from the experimenting that I have done, it only overheats faster because it’s shooting faster, the heat per shot is about the same. If you deny that i guess I have to test it more. Or if you can, linking dev notes that say exactly how much faster weapons overheat in overdrive would help.

Well, the heat per shot is exactly the same on overdrive as it is on normal fire.

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Overdrive is the same as auto but faster, yeah. When I wrote it overheats twice as fast I meant the total time it takes to overheat. But overdrive is not something for every case: in long waves with big amount of enemies it’s better not to use it in order to deal consistent damage before you overheat. Otherwise you’re right, it’s just better manual and now when I think about it, it indeed seems cheaty.

More speficically, the firerate is increased by 50% (this is viewable in the excel sheet).

Actually, heat per shot is slightly increased with overdrive:

As far as overdrive is concerned in its entirety, I previously tried to work out a way to replace the overheat penalty with a cooldown system that would make sense. But eventually I got burned out on all the balance stuff, so I ditched it.

This table is old, and some of the weapon values are outdated, but it should give you a good enough idea of how that’d work.

This system works off of the weapon’s base overheat time, and total reactor power (yay, giving an actual to reason have a maxed out reactor). Essentially, we take the overheat time in seconds, take the reactor power and interpret it as milliseconds, and then apply a few modifiers. The formulas here are as follows:

Overdrive duration: (overheat / a) + (power / 1000 / b)
Overdrive recharge: (overheat / c) + (power / 1000 / d)

The variables for this table in particular are set to:
a = 2.5
b = 1.5
c = 1.25
d = 1

For Moron, the duration is also divided by 2, and the recharge is divided by 1.5 (this would be combined with the 33% overdrive for Moron that I’ve been rambling on about since forever).

So we have the formulas, and we can tweak the values to try and figure out what would be most optimal. Another important thing to consider would be how exactly the cooldown would work.

I don’t think a solely time based cooldown would cut it. I think the player should be forced to use the weapon normally to recharge, so I figured that we can make it so that the recharge only triggers when damage is dealt to an enemy.
What I propose, is that whenever an enemy is hit, the game takes the weapon’s current base firing interval and allows the cooldown timer to advance for about 1.2x that. So for example, if Vulcan has an interval of 0.100, a hit would trigger the recharge for 0.120s. Of course, this only works when firing normally and doesn’t stack (the timer just resets with every hit). That way we’re essentially forcing the player to damage enemies normally instead of just waiting out the cooldown.
This also helps with the problem of giving overdrive to the Corn Shotgun, as you would no longer be able to use overdrive indefinitely while overheated. Boron would also be balanced a bit more, since you couldn’t use overdrive to heat it up faster.

Another thing to consider is when can overdrive be engaged, as well as when can the recharge be engaged. If we want to impose a very harsh limit on its usage, we can make it so that the recharge only activates once overdrive runs out completely, and overdrive goes back online only after it’s fully recharged. We’d have to experiment with different degrees of such restrictions, as well as the actual formulas to have it well-balanced.


For regular stages suffers because DPI making it a bad weapon, one of the examples is Highway but with bosses, specially mechanical bosses…
Hoo boy, you have the longest constant fire both with regular and overdrive that gives hilarious scenarios to punch really hard stationary bosses

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