Weapon balance for a non-datamining noob?

Okay so first of all, I saw the DPS chart that update 50 had released by the dev.
Nice that he does that. So my question arises. Why should I ever use something that does not have the highest DPS? it is obviously the best and everything else is worse.
Now one could say: “boss weaknesses”. Well, I played all CI games, and I never noticed that this mechanic benefit me or crippled me.
If I am strong, I kill bosses fast. If I am weak, it takes time. More difficult bosses like Mother Alien, YolkStar and such have no weaknesses anyway. Also in this game bosses seem to be random.
A normal wave has random bosses aswell it seems.
So the only reason I see that being useful are the really special modes like Supernova, meteor shower or Astroids.
But non of those seem to have weaknesses or strengths.
So why should I use anything besides the beams or if I want more consistent DPS, the Corn or Iopn weapon?
And assuming we ignore this question, another arises.
The game has like what? 15 or so weapons.
We have some which are distinctively different “class-wise”. But I feel that a lot of them could be cut and noone would really care. We have like the same “Blaster” weapons. A re-yellow one, a green one that is slower but doesn’t seem to do more damage, a blue one that shoots straight, a blue one that spreads when you overheat it, a machinegun-like one, a blue-orange flare one.
They all seem to be the same: weak. And whenever I accidentally happen to use one or switch to it temporarily because a boss dropped it 3 times so I get 2 energy, I feel crippled.
Same goes to beams.
We have like, the electric beam. This one seem to be lackluster at first, but when you get it to 20, it melts everything.
Then we have the teo purple beams. One can spread onto enemies, the other can’t do anything. So yeah.
And then we have Lasers. We have the normal orange laser and the Absolver. And I find the Absolver being infinitely better.
Sure, it overheats faster, but I can charge and instantly kill an entire row of ANYTHING including all their projectiles for an 8th of my charge bar. I can also spam it with my mousewheel in a sideways move to literally dump on an entire wave of chickens. Sure I overheat, but the wave is mostly done. On SSH.
So I don’t know if I discovered a groundbreaking balance issue or I’m just bad at the game for not seeing the obvious.
But I don’t want all the cool guns to be nerfed. Rather buff everything else to their levels, or, and this is a real suggestion: Give us the ability to choose multiple weapons we take in a missions. Allow us to buy slots for that. And then in a mission we could change them according to the situation. This would give the game more depth. At the same time, give enemies a huge variety in strengths and weaknesses. Every boss should have one. So we can prepare accordingly.
And also you could sell an insight that would show people which bosses occur in missions so we can choose weapons.
It will greatly increase replayability and viability of all weapons in my opinion.
Because I see myself using the Ion blaster most of the time simply because it does nice damage and has this huge spread so I can kill enemies sideways.

6 Likes

Firstly, weapon balancing is kind of a big deal in the community right now - every second update has some major rework trying to fix stuff. If you’ve played the old CI games, then you’ll notice some massive differences with some of the weapons - many of those were added in the last month or so (though some are older).

That said, there are some things to consider:

Spread/Non-Spread - Kind of a preferential thing, but depends on the wave your flying. If you are in, say, a “Supernova” type wave, having spread is good, but for fighting chickens, not as much.

Accuracy - The game rewards you medals for accuracy, and you can also earn bonus points by shooting chickens in a certain sequence. This is crucial to highscores, so if you are aiming to score well, a precise weapon that doesn’t miss or fire multiple bullets is good (like Plasma Rifle).

Gimmicks - Some of the weapons have unique gimmicks. Vulcan chaingun, like you said, spreads as it heats - but this is actually really useful as you can control the spread dynamically, mid-mission. It’s great for comet chases because it shoots backwards.
And the Photon Swarm (blue and orange one) seeks in on enemies, making it great for waves with fast-moving, weak targets like Meteor Storms or Bonus Challenges.

tl;dr - A lot depends on what you’re trying to accomplish. Highscoring, flying special mission types, etc. Some is also preference (do you like weapons with automatic fire, or do you prefer clicking the button?). And some is just balance issues, like you said - stuff is still getting worked on with every update.

This is a cool tactic that I don’t think I’ve ever seen before, clever.

3 Likes

I know that.
The thing with me and older games was basically like CIU. If I noticed a gun does lots of damage, I use it. If I use one and see that it barely does anything, I never use it again.
The only guns I consider using in CIU are:
-Ion Blaster
-Lightning Fryer
-Plasma Rifle
-Utensil Poker even though I prefer Iopn Blaster
-Photon Swarm
-Positron Beam
and the Absolver Beam. I like to use some more than the others, and if possible, I avoid the rest.
They all seem lackluster to me. And as you see, almost all of the “shooting simply straight projectiles” are ignored by me. They just feel bland and boring. And while they are accurate, they are weak from what I feel.

Thing is, I feel that covering a bigger area is always better. For example Ion Blaster vs, let’s say Boron gun.
I kill a lot of chickens much faster, even though I am inaccurate.
I cover a bigger area in a bossfight, potentually killing more of the trashmobs.
And if I miss out on a few of those few 10K point medals at the end, I don’t sweat if I finish a mission more successfully.
On harder difficulties getting rid of as much as I can as fast as I can seems to be the key compared to accuracy.

Yeah. i know that. And I consider using those two for the corresponding missions. But like… It I play a boss rush or a normal mission, the Vulcan is just weak it seems.
I like the Photon Swarm, and use it if I have nothing better or I do the occasional 120th, but this one also feels weak compared to like the Ion Blaster. I hit the enemies fast enough due to the big cone of red bullets.

At some point the Absolver is so strong, that the smallest beam kills nearly everything besides the strong special chickens. I use this to unload a barrage of the weak lasers while I plough through a wave. If I get the Absolver next time, I’ll record a small video to show that.

I think my main issue is the lack of feedback about the guns.
I can buy a damage number accessory to see random numbers. But they don’t mean anything to me.
I see how much damage I do to bosses. A lor of bosses have patterns. I like the Superman chicken a lot to see stuff. You know, he flies in the middle and always fires a butt-beam, then starts to fly around. I like to test how much damage I can get into him with a weapon before he finishes that part of his pattern. And basically it is like how I said. The guns I use deal more damage to him than the ones I ingore.
Normal waves are a big feature in the game. And I don’t deny that a lot of weapons are more useful than I think they are. I just lack the feedback.
I could see the damage numbers of my gun, but it doesn’t matter anything, as I don’t know a chickens health.
For example. I saw that the Plasma Rifle does 1600 damage. And the positron Stream something like 600.
But do I need those 1600 damage? You know what I mean? Does it matter if I slay chickens in normal waves? If a chicken has 500 health, both kill within one damage tick. If it has like 1200, one kills in one tick, but the others in 2. Yet the weaker one has double the firerate, so it evens out.
If I saw how much health they have, it would actually give me a reason to choose the better weapon instead the one that just feels better.

1 Like

Highlighting enemy health would make it an easier target for Cheat Engine though

1 Like

The game is server-sided as far as I know. And I don’t mean a real number. It could be a buyable extra that enables small bars on the enemy, similar ro the gauge on the metal barriers and eggs.
The thing is, I have the assumtion that normal chickens don’t have health, but simply require a set number of hits till they die at some point.
I just flew a mission, and in wave 1 got the Vulcan Chaingun. According to the wiki it deals 140 damage with 0 energy. I had the metal abrriers with a circular healthbar.
I had to shoot them three times, doing a third of their health per hit.
During the wave I got the Plasma beam weapon, which, according to the wiki, deas 200 damage.
And it took me the same 3 shots for the barriers, doing the same amount of visual damage.
So something does not add up. Almost 1/3 more damage on a weapon results in the same amount of hits and the same visual gauge on the metal enemies.
If I am right, then damage and DPS only matters against bosses, while only the projectile count and firerate matters against all normal enemies.
I dislike that.
Edit: But the next thing contradicts this. in the same wave, after typing this, I decided to test it further.
I got the lser cannon. Same metal barriers take 4 hits from it. it has a damage of 100 at 0 energy.
How can it be calculated that way?
4 hits with 100 damage means it has a health of 301-400.
But the Plasma cannon deals 200 damage. So it HAS to kill a barrier within 2 hits. But it takes 3.
I am confused on how exactly enemy health works.

I know some people will freak out, but the “HUD Damage Indicator” could show % of health reduced, instead of absolute numbers.

4 Likes

What is the possibility that the wiki is insanely outdated when it comes to damage numbers?
is it possible to get the recent damage per hit numbers of all weapons?
Basically this:

  • The power level you start with.

Projectiles : One Weak from the tip
Base damage per volley : 100 (1x100)
Firerate (max/automatic) : 6.5/s / 2.85/s*
But updated?

The wiki uses damage values from Chicken Invaders 5, don’t rely on that.

For current damage values you should check iA’s spreadsheet here.

2 Likes

That thing sadly does not list projectile damage.

There’s a “projectiles” sheet in the excel file.
image
For damage values of beams, check the “volley” sheet (since they don’t use projectiles).

Ohh, I’m dumb. So I look at the projectiles sheet, and it has B1, B2 and B3. What does that mean and how do energy levels affect it?
Also a lot of them simply have no data at all.

For example Neutron Gun has 3 types of projectiles small (b1), medium (b2), large (b3). Fp 8 has 2 small, 2 medium, 1 large.