Early Access version 118

Since i made this topic about add some possible bosses to DT, but iA denied me because of “hard work” and boss variations. Although i decided to skip The Henperor’s Apprentice, i still had something to say about The Apple Core after iA’s replying.

Anyways, i have just thought 2 new bosses which possible to add to Double Team. What’s those bosses? Join this poll here:

Which bosses you want to add to Double Team mission?
  • The Wobble Yolk (the yolk from “The Yolk Star™” boss)
  • “It’s Mother hen-ship!” boss (but it will be reduced its size)
  • Yes, both of two them
  • No, too hard
0 voters

Edit: “It’s mother hen-ship” boss will appear from the top edge of the screen just like other bosses, but it will be reduced its size, maybe its size will be as long as half the edge of the horizontal screen (or longer a little)
Also, i said the wobble yolk, not its eggship. So please don’t get wrong mind

@InterAction_studios I suggest using normalisations but to the previous largest ratio:

+) Example: Usage of 0,4 : 0,3 : 0,2 : 0,1 (arranged from high to low)
- 0,4 results in 1% bonus
- 0,3 results in (0,3/0,4) x 1% = 0,75% bonus
- 0,2 results in (0,2/0,3) x 1% = 0,67% bonus
- 0,1 results in (0,1/0,2) x 1% = 0,5% bonus
- Total bonus: 1 + 0,75 + 0,67 + 0,5 = 2,92%
+) Example: Usage of 0,4 : 0,2 : 0,2 : 0,2 (more balanced than above ratio I think)
- 0,4 results in 1% bonus
- 0,2 results in (0,2/0,4) x 1% = 0,5% bonus
- 0,2 results in (0,2/0,2) x 1% = 1% bonus
- 0,2 results in (0,2/0,2) x 1% = 1% bonus
- Total bonus: 1 + 0,5 + 1 + 1 = 3,5%
+) Example: 0,4 : 0,2 : 0,2 : 0,1 : 0,1 (more weapons, should results in larger bonus)
- 0,4 → 1%
- 0,2 → 0,5%
- 0,2 → 1%
- 0,1 → 0,5%
- 0,1 → 1%
- Total: 4% (hell yes)
+) Example: 0,4 : 0,2 : 0,1 : 0,1 : 0,1 : 0,1
→ Total 1 + 0,5 + 0,5 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 5% (hell yes)
+) Example: 0,3 : 0,2 : 0,2 : 0,1 : 0,1 : 0,1 (more balanced)
→ Total 1 + 0,67 + 1 + 0,5 + 1 + 1 = 5,17% (hell yes)
+) Example : 0,2 : 0,2 : 0,2 : 0,2 : 0,1 : 0,1 (even more balanced)
→ Total 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 0,5 + 1 = 5,5% (hell yes)
If you pick up a 7th weapon and use it least, the relative proportion of each previous ratio pair remains the same, so the total bonus will definately increase.

What if you picked up a new weapon and not used it least? Let’s consider the example below:
+) You used 4 weapons in ratio 0,3 : 0,3 : 0,2 : 0,2 and the current total bonus is 1 + 1 + 0,67 + 1 = 3,67%
+) You later picked up a 5th weapon and finally used it for 20% of the remaining mission time. The ratio 0,3 : 0,3 : 0,2 : 0,2 is now recalculated to the 80% first time of the mission, which result in the final usage ratio of 0,24 : 0,24 : 0,16 : 0,16 : 0,2.
+) Let’s rearrange it to 0,24 : 0,24 : 0,2 : 0,16 : 0,16. Now the final total bonus is 1 + 1 + 0,83 + 0,8 + 1 = 4,63% (woohoo!)
+) If you used the 5th weapon for 40% of the time, the new ratio will be 0,18 : 0,18 : 0,12 : 0,12 : 0,4, rearranged to 0,4 : 0,18 : 0,18 : 0,12 : 0,12. The new bonus will be 1 + 0,45 + 1 + 0,67 + 1 = 4,12% (which is larger than 3,67% and smaller than 4,63%!)

Consider a very unbalanced ratio of 0,8 : 0,1 : 0,1 → 1 + 0,125 + 1 = 2,125% bonus (rounded to 2,13%)
If you picked up a 4th weapon and just used it 10% last game, the new ratio will be 0,72 : 0,09 : 0,09 : 0,1; rearranged to 0,72 : 0,1 : 0,09 : 0,09 → The new bonus is 1 + 0,14 + 0,9 + 1 = 3,04% (still good huh?)

So generally you will have to rearrange usage ratio to x : y : z : t… (x > y > z > t > …), then the function will be (1 + y/x + z/y + t/z + …) x 1%. This ensure that:
+) Bigger gaps in the usage ratio (which imply unbalance) will result in smaller proportion of maximum 1% bonus added.
+) Every usage percentage will participate in the function as a variable, not only the highest one like yours.
+) Every new weapon picked up will add to the total bonus, since it add a proportion in the function.
+) If you used n weapons, the bonus range will be (n-1)% to n%. This mean the number of weapons used is considered prior to the balance of the usage. The usage balance will only determine the exact value in that range, near (n-1)% for unbalanced usage and almost n% for balanced usage.

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My dude, I think that’s enough math for today

2 Likes

Yeah that def cannot be a meme.

Agree, better let iA test his own version for at least one update before making more balance changes.

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Your computer ran out of memory: 🛠 Troubleshooting - #5 by InterAction_studios

Good idea. I’ll try it.
Doesn’t work well. A ratio of 1 : 0.9 : 0.9 : … : 0.9 over 15 weapons will give a bonus of 14,9%, while a ratio of 1: 0.1 : 0.1 : … : 0.1 will give 14,1%, although it’s clear that these two do not represent approximately equally balanced usage.

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Well, if you test 15 weapons, the bonus will definitely range from 14% to 15%. It will get near 14% for unbalanced usage and almost 15% for balanced usage. So you need a bigger nerf for that 0,1s case? If you nerf it, there will definitely be overlaps between bonus range of number of weapons used. I reckon you want to nerf it down to somewhere near the base 1%?

Some recommended workarounds:
+) Maybe we can set a varible critical value, weapons whose usage time below that will be ignored from the function (in other words, they’re considered not significant enough to be calculated in the bonus). I’m thinking on the function for it, should be dependent on the number of weapons used (n).

  • Firstly, you want those 0,1s to not be calculated in the function I suppose (the bonus will be nerfed down to 1%)? Then the critical value must be higher than that.
  • I will normalise those ratio to the sum of 100%. It will be 0,41(6) : 0,041(6) (x 14 times).
  • A simple yet extreme solution is that just take the average number as the critical value. It will be 1/15 = 0,0(6) and you can safely ignore all those 0,1s.
  • Doing so, let k be the number of weapons whose usage time above average, the bonus range will then be (k-1)% to k%.
    → This can be very brutal because it will ignore all weapons usage below average. Usage of 0,51 : 0,49 or 0,36 : 0,32 : 0,32 or 0,28 : 0,24 : 0,24 : 0,24… will all result in 1% bonus.
  • Workaround of workaround: We might need to calculate the critical value again or have a separate function for the ratio ignored.
  • I think choosing the critical value somewhere between 1/2n and 1/n² might work better.
  • Or, we can separately use the same function for the ignored numbers, but times it to a proportion to nerf it, I suggest just half them. That 14 0,1s will be 14% and then halved down to 7%, so the total bonus will be 8%.

Hmm… You still want the bonus to range from 1% to n% for n weapons used instead of (n-1)% to n%?

If the comments section for each release had a theme, this would be math, math and lots of math.

3 Likes

Adding both makes zero sense. here is explanation.

Wobble-Yolk: How a harmless dumb swarming enemy can help in double team? just does nothing other than swarming and doesn’t make it a “Double team”

Mother hen ship: How really you can add a Supposedly Gigantic Boss into the mission, not to mention it’s a bullet hell by it’s own especially in higher difficulties.

Are you sure? If it really can’t help anything for that team, so… how about increase its moving speed? Or increase its size

Why not you ask that with Superchick?

First see the results of the poll and we will see.

The henship is much bigger than the superchick. and more difficult than it.

How about making it shoot neutron bullets randomly?

Super-Chick was shrunk to fit in DT missions, a shrunk Mother-Hen Ship (CI4) would look… weird.

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Can you make compare fleet screen aligning spacecrafts of the same type (if exist)?

How is the order of spacecrafts arranged up to down? Can you make it in alphebet order and align every identical spacecrafts on the top?

And, anyway, not related but I’m curious whether iA love eating chickens or not

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already suggested

Can you provide me previous suggestion(s)? Did iA reply to it/them?

sorry i can’t remember

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6 years of me being excellent in mathmatics goes in the wind trying to understand these cursed math sutff.

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Please check again. The Zoom of “It’s a bird…” boss is bigger that the zoom of “It’s Mother hen-ship!”. Also, i had told before about its size

So what? It’s Wobble Yolk! It’s the 2nd phase of “The Yolk Star™!” boss, not all that boss

Edit: Though i still don’t understand why mostly people don’t want to add it

Bruh… Idk but maybe that will make a boss variation, which iA don’t want to do.

I think i will be fine (i guess). Like “Blast from the past” boss but bigger a little

Ok reject the size, How can people fight it’s swarming bullet hell? Skill issue?

I said first wait to get enough votes about this and then see what you can do about this.

You don’t tell this but … Ok, will wait