About the current difficulty of the game

[SpryterTerraxian]

That is true, but if implemented correctly it can also passively affect difficulty by giving the player a lot of choices to choose from. However this can also have a negative in fact if done too good in the form of “analysis paralysis”. So that’s one thing more.

[Enhawk]

The game definitely needs a lot of content, so we won’t be running into analysis paralysis stage anytime soon.

[Kylo-Hen]

Yeah, I’m not saying that the difficulty isn’t a problem. I just feel like when it comes to the specific issue of people getting bored, making it harder won’t fix that. We can fix that ourselves by mounting Moron or flying some of the more brutal boss rushes. Difficulty needs tweaking, but I don’t think it’s the factor to blame for people leaving from boredom. If it’s super hard but plays the same, that won’t change.

[Enhawk]

Aagh you just summarized my textwall better than anyone else.

[OneWingLunarian]

And lack of new bosses and stuff for something fresh

A lot of other stuff have already gone stale

[Enhawk]

It’s been a year since we got the bombers.

[SpryterTerraxian]

The point to aim for is hard, but not too hard or punishing. However while we can give ourselves challenges, not everyone thinks that way. The game is too easy and making it even easier also plays a major factor in boredom, however people still want to make the game easier. A lot easier. And that’s one of the main problems.

[Kylo-Hen]

@SpryterTerraxian

however people still want to make the game easier. A lot easier. And that’s one of the main problems.

This annoys me specifically because there’s a really simple way of doing that - stop mounting SSH if you can’t actually fly it.

Of course, they do this because they want to earn more keys but don’t want to grind forever.

And this would also be fixed by adding more diverse content so they don’t get bored. So it pleases both parties, and we’re back to the same point.

[Enhawk]

The grindy aspect of the game is something that has bugged me for a while, as the prices are adjusted according to the SSH earn rate. SSH is beyond most players, so an alternate challenge, something that is within the reach of the average player, is necessary, like limited time events.

[OneWingLunarian]

I do not mind grinding, really.

But the time where I really do is when I feel like I’m just doing the same thing over and over. You’ll lose interest quite fast.

As for the part on difficulty…
Yeah, I don’t blame them, but it’s quite selfish to those who want a real challenge. Those who want to play a legit SSH.

[Recruit_75]

@SpryterTerraxian

Meanwhile there’s been one specific beam in the game that’s been buffed to the heavens and beyond so much that it’s useless to use any other weapon in elite missions than the weapon. That’s right, it’s plasma rifle and it’s still getting buffed. At this point we now have the exact same problem of the Utensil Poker of the past, which took two whole years to solve. And now we’re back to square one. This has completely wrecked the experience of the game and has made people think elite missions are downright impossible due to the overpoweredness of plasma and has made other weapons feel worse. Centralizing the meta to just one weapon leads to more balancing and if even one buff or nerf is done wrong then it sends the whole thing spiraling down to chaos and another weapon being way too OP and then that’s nerfed leading to some other weapon being OP and nerfed and so on and so forth, leading to a lot of precious development time on iA’s end being taken up by balancing only.

THIS!

I absolutely agree that Plasma is way too OP. In fact, I am honestly disappointed that it took this look for people to realize that it’s OP.

@OneWingLunarian

But when it does come to using other weapons, the difficulty is severely increased, but about 60% of the difficulty is reliant on Coward, Slob, and Miniboss spam. If you have a wave that is usually quite easy (For example: Chicken Fractals), but replace all the chickens with Armored Chickens… All of a sudden, the difficulty is no longer difficult. It’s just straight up unfair. Unfair to those who insist on playing without any usage of Special Weapons at all. (Although I won’t deny that epic waves are quite fun)

This is also very accurate. The times when I die a lot are when there are a ridiculous amount of cowards and minibosses (although I’ll admit that I also crash a lot due to my oversensitive mouse and awful mouse control). Cowards and Slobs have made weapons like Lighting Fryer and Vulcan Chaingun way too tedious to use as these weapons are among the least predictable to use. Without the presence of cowards and slobs, these weapons are actually decent and I personally love their design.

@OneWingLunarian

On the other hand: A lot of bosses also require a serious buff. Most of them are practically a joke after the first encounter, especially when their patterns are no longer interesting enough to keep you alert at all. This is why they need something extra, like Brothers Reunited and Shoot the Core got. Something to balance the wave difficulties and boss difficulties, considering even on SSH, bosses are a lot easier than the waves themselves

Another accurate point. With a 10 Laser Cannon, most bosses don’t even last 30 seconds. So a health buff for most of them would be welcome, especially the big chickens like Superchicken, Infinity-chicken, Sweater chicken, Big chicken etc. Additionally, the crabs, probably more than any other bosses, really need a buff, and not just in the form of faster attacks and more health. Making their attacks more unpredictable by using different throwing pattermns is IMO the best way of increasing the difficulty. The changes required to make Crabs challenging would need its own topic.

If I’ll have anything to add, I’ll edit the post.

[Enhawk]

@OneWingLunarian

As for the part on difficulty…
Yeah, I don’t blame them, but it’s quite selfish to those who want a real challenge. Those who want to play a legit SSH.

Yeah, but to earn keys, one should not be forced to play in the highest difficulty. The difficulties should co-exist, while those with a death wish can play SSH if they want to, while core progression is unaffected. That said, however, SSH should have some payoff.

[TheGreatestRoman]

imho there should be a big difficulty window (from very easy to very hard) to accommodate to every kind of player and which should yield rewards accordingly

[GgWw1175]

A few points.

1. Plasma Rifle
   If the recent base damage increase made it too strong, then it has to be replaced with a damage ramp (since we can be almost certain that Positron won’t be getting it) which:
   i) doesn’t affect the damage of the AoE (the AoE itself would need to be readjusted)
   ii) gets reset whenever a target is switched
   iii) has a slightly higher damage bonus to compensate for not being constant

   If the AoE is the problem, then it has to have its damage further lowered, or damage sharing has to be implemented (this was suggested to stop situations like insta-clearing Tangled Mess, but we’ll see whether or not that’s still necessary after the next update).

   If it’s both then, well, do both.

2. Cowards (and Slobs) in relation to Plasma
   Cowards need to retaliate if one-shotted. I’m pretty sure this was mentioned at some point, and for some reason omitted in Akemisora’s post (I can’t remember whether this decision was made by the WBP team for a reason or if it just happened). That way Plasma users don’t get as much of an advantage against them (the situation for Absolver would remain largely unchanged, since it destroys projectiles at max charge anyway).

   Slobs just need a full rework (no idea if any of this ever went outside of the WBP server and CID). Either the amount of damage dealt in a hit increases their likelihood of retaliation (so a Plasma hit would often cause them to attack), or they need a constant attack (like dropping waste at a high rate), probably coupled with the current 360° attack used when they die.

3. Overdrive
   oh god not this again
   I’m still not sure whether or not I’ll actually end up posting the rework concept, but for now I want to ask a question: aside from the obvious (obviously, yeeting it out of the game), how would you improve overdrive?

Not much to say about the rest. I’m in favour of buffing most of the bosses, and I have no idea how to tackle the other issues.

[kokokokos]

@SpryterTerraxian

proof of which would be a lot of people leaving and in fact openly admitting that they are really bored of CIU due to this

Yeah, sorry but I haven’t seen anybody actually state that they are leaving because of difficulty. If you want to know, I am personally bored because this Early Access has been going on for 2 years and the amount of new content we got is pathetic. For a long time this game just reused stuff from CI4 and CI5 without even changing anything. Now it’s better, but the amount of new content doesn’t make it interesting for players that already well, played everything.

@SpryterTerraxian

People want the game to be even easier and then complain that the game is too easy

You’re speaking about just a few users. Not the minority: (EDIT: I meant majority, sorry)

Is SSH hard enough? [POLL]

Some people will undoubtedly think so, but who are these people? What percentage of the players do they represent? Perhaps a poll would be in order. ^Currently there is ongoing debate about CIU’s difficulty on hardest missions, I also feel like poll will be the best way to determine what we are standing on, so here it is. I also separated bosses and regular waves, because from what I know, some people are convinced that those two types of waves are very different when it comes to difficulty…

[Kylo-Hen]

@kokokokos

Yeah, sorry but I haven’t seen anybody actually state that they are leaving because of difficulty. If you want to know, I am personally bored because this Early Access has been going on for 2 years and the amount of new content we got is pathetic. For a long time this game just reused stuff from CI4 and CI5 without even changing anything. Now it’s better, but the amount of new content doesn’t make it interesting for players that already well, played everything.

This.

I will say that I enjoy CIU more than the other titles, personally, because it has way more replay value. Weekly challenges and “Weapons Training” are some of the most fun things I’ve played in the series. It’s still a bit grindy, but way better than flying the same mission over and over.

[Enhawk]

So, to summarize this topic, we concluded that the game is in more need of variety than tweaks.

[Kylo-Hen]

@GgWw1175

Cowards (and Slobs) in relation to Plasma

Slobs are fine and feel balanced. When I get slobs, I find myself intentionally trying to deal as low a damage per shot to them (such as clipping them with Plasma AoE instead of direct blasts) to farm more food out of them, unless they’re in a really dangerous spot or I’m flustered. They’re a risk/reward game, I’ve never understood the issue with them.

Cowards are a completely different story. I’d not be hugely upset if they vanished from the game entirely, tbh. They’re vague aesthetically, confusing mechanically, and completely lopsided from a balancing perspective. They cause a bunch of problems and don’t add anything to the game that slobs don’t (holding off on your shots).

@kokokokos

You’re speaking about just a few users. Not the minority.

Am I misreading this? Or is that meant to say majority? Because I’m confused.

[kokokokos]

@Kylo-Hen

Or is that meant to say majority ?

Yeah, you’re right. I always frick those two up.