Since you’ve opened it, I’d like to point out that if this is the approach you’re taking, best move it to be a unique property of a ship class. (Muller?)
2 Likes
These are just possibilities – not final decisions.
Hm… That would excessively restrict access to it, I think. It’s best if it’s either always-on, or at least freely available.
2 Likes
Well, that is more a fault of pricing and the way ships are obtained in the first place.
Even so, Overdrive as it currently sits, is kinda niche in the way that you have to handle it to get optimum firerate and not overheat. Moving it to a better ship would only be for diversity’s sake, anyway. A “better” ship having this mechanic would…alright, I can’t BS my way out of this one.
After not-so-long playing session, the winner by getting overdrive is Plasma. It may overheat very fast, but its aoe is op against clumped enemies.
I am of the opinion that Overdrive in Manual weapons should be activated by holding down the fire button as opposed to double-click.
So how would you fire normally? Individual clicks? That would (a) invite autoclickers back into the game and (b) result in a different control system for manual/auto weapons, which is bad UX.
4 Likes
Overdrive should be something that you engage in voluntarily, as an alternate mode of firing rather than something interspersed with normal firing patterns. The heat production really messes up manual weapons, whereas in automatic weapons it works because double tapping is distinct enough from holding to make it a comfortable alternate mode of firing. It’s pretty hard for manual weapons to distinguish between a double-tap and continuous fire, and Overdrive performance is quite abysmal on normal waves, so Overdrive is not exactly a priority. It’s also incredibly confusing from a player point of view, because a double-tap clearly falls within the maximum frequency of firing a weapon without overdrive, and the heat produced is just unnecessary. My rationale behind triggering Overdrive on manual weapons by holding down the spacebar is that you have to do something deliberately out of your way to trigger overdrive, as that is the most efficient way of using it to your advantage. Again, for automatic weapons you have to double tap, which isn’t the way you fire it normally. Shouldn’t the same logic be applicable to manual weapons? Overdrive is not something you want randomly turning on on the middle of, say, Spiral of Doom or a similar wave.
Maybe adding a separate button to disable/enable Overdrive could solve this. Additionally, an option could be added for Overdrive to be automatically locked when equipping primarily manual-fire weapons to save time or attention? That way it’ll be flexible for all types of players, from those who’d rather not use Overdrive at all to people who like to switch between overdrive and regular auto/manual fire on the fly to Overdrive lovers.
1 Like
I’m curious as to what you mean by this. All weapons get the same overheat penalty (more-or-less) when using overdrive.
Manual fire no longer exists in this game. Technically, all non-chargeable weapons can be considered as automatic. Double clicking is exactly as “out of your way” for former automatics as it is for former manuals, the only difference is the fire rate.
I don’t think we should again separate weapons into these two categories just to implement mechanical differences between them.
And regarding the heat penalty: it may stay in the game, or it may not. Right now I’m leaning towards replacing it with a cooldown.
Neutron Gun.
That would add another button into the game. Though that’s the most elegant solution, not sure if iA would implement it for the sake of keeping it simple.
On retrospect, there’s another flaw with my idea I didn’t consider; this solution would work in theory, but in practice most standard mice don’t have 4 buttons, so the Overdrive Lock Button would (comfortably) only work on keyboard.
Neutron Gun has a set overheat time of 9,5s. In practice, this turns out to be 8,5s (Something to do with the way the game calculates heat per shot makes weapons with slower fire rates overheat slightly faster than the raw value. I previously noticed this with Plasma.).
So I gave that same 8,5s overheat time to Vulcan, and I got pretty much the exact same results for both weapons. Regular overheat time of about 8,5s and about 4s with overdrive. I didn’t go frame by frame (I eyeballed it using the mission timer), but I think my observations are close enough.
So I’m curious about what conclusion you came to, and how?
Eh. I couldn’t play properly at all and picking up Neutron Gun messed my Space Race. It sounds much more stupid when you break it down like that.
This is because the shot that actually results in overheat is not fired. So if you’re at 90% heat and each shot requires 11% heat, firing a shot “won’t fit” and you’ll effectively overheat sooner (in this case, at 90%) than what the raw numbers would indicate.
4 Likes
Suggestion on Absolver’s Overdrive, how about making the charge itself release automatically when fully charged? You don’t really need to hold it for a long time when you need rapid damage. Since the main purpose of overdrive is burst damage in exchange of faster overheat.
Being able to precisely time your releases is a big part of the Absolver’s strategic use.
15 Likes
Opinion + suggestion as of v54
- Neutron Gun
It became a slow firing gun. It’s kinda sad, but I can adapt. It does better after 0.35 -> 0.315 change though, but compared to other weapons performance, it kinda falls behind. In fact, its dps & dpv falls behind laser cannon at later fp.
Proposed change:
B2 damage (700 -> 750)
B3 damage (1100 -> 1200)
Not the smoothest progression, but it will make dpv closer to laser, dps close to utensil, and damage before overheat close to Ion.
I suspect what makes it performing below average is that it’s slow firing, slow travelling, not spreading combined. I wish its overdrive could be faster. Rapid firing with short duration (because I’m sure overdrive will be limited), to imitate burst attack it did when manual firing was a thing.
Will update the rest later.
Its DPV falls behind on 
7, 8, and 9. Obviously the DPS is lower, Laser has its short overheat time to counterbalance the 20.4k DPS.
So unless you’re proposing giving it a 6 to 7 second overheat time, damage output that high is not going to work.
It’s fine damage-wise. Its DPS is barely lower than UP’s, save for 8 due to the damage progression not being particularly smooth (which I’m planning to fix with some slight damage and fire rate tweaks). The main complaint I’ve been seeing was the slow fire rate, but I haven’t been explicitly told by anyone to make it faster so far.
I’d rather have us use the same base formula for all weapons instead of trying to balance recharge time with increase to fire rate separately for each weapon.
I think what you haven’t considered is
This part cause it has low accuracy thus low actual damage output, so I think it can help a bit, dpv wise, damage before overheating non-boss wise.
It’s in overdrive part.
I wonder how it will be like. But please consider overdrive works differently among weapons. It complements some, it overpowers some, it makes normal firing obsolete for some, etc.
This took way longer than it should’ve.
I pretty much lost almost all interest in the game, so this is likely the last batch of reworks that I’ll be putting out.
Changes
Ion Blaster:
- Damage: 340/480 → 300/425
- Firing interval: 0,250 → 0,220
- Overheat time: 8,5s → 8s
Fire rate buff as per @OneWingLunarian’s request (though to a lesser extent). Slight overheat nerf.
Neutron Gun:
- Damage: 330; 660; 990
- Volley changes:
–1: 1xB2 → 2xB1
–9: 4xB2 + 1x B3 → 2xB1 + 1xB2 + 2xB3
–10: 2xB2 + 3xB3 → 3xB2 + 2xB3 - Firing interval: 0,263 (constant)
- Overheat time: 9,5s → 10s
Initially, I thought the only changes I’d be making would be to the damage values (to smooth out the progression) and increasing the fire rate.
Unfortunately, even after smoothing the damage progression out, it underperforms on low power due to the larger DPS increase on 9. Due to this, I decided to rework some of the volleys.
Let’s go over those changes now.
1
Same damage, but with two projectiles. The point of this change is to give it more volume of fire to help with its performance against groups.
9 and 10
Changed to address the issue mentioned above.
I also have two designs for the 8 volley, which would fit the revamped progression better than the current volley (damage remains the same). Which one to choose depends on what we want: do we want to keep 5 projectiles (which would fit in with 9), or do we want to make it more focused (which would fit in with 7)?
Technically this change is entirely optional, so I decided to put it to a vote.
-
The old reliable “middle finger” -
Focused -
Dispersed
0 voters
Laser Cannon:
For now:
- Overheat time: 6s → 6,5s
Slight change to make it a bit more manageable.
In the future:
We have to consider reworking the volleys from the ground up. As it is, its damage scales in such a way that its starting damage output is way too low. This combined with its low volume of fire on low power makes it pretty much useless.
I showcased a possible volley rework on the Discord server (bolt damage 400/600/800/1000), and while I didn’t receive any objections, I’m not sure if I’m quite happy with the volley designs (the S2 sheet contains those altered volleys, if you’re interested). Reworking the volleys could also be paired with a visual overhaul, as the Laser Cannon does obscure the view quite a bit (and to be honest, it looks pretty bad on bombers).
Vulcan Chaingun:
- Damage: B1: 100 → 125
Slight low power buff.
Lightning Fryer:
Damage multiplier: 1
Chaining delay: 0
Multi-hit penalty: 0,75
While I originally dropped removing the chaining delay due to the presence of cowards, it turns out that this change makes chaining way more reliable. To the point where, in my opinion, it doesn’t really need its damage increased past the raw values. My only issue is that multi-hit is initially rather ineffective against squawkers (since you have no way of getting closer other than waiting) - making multi-hit slightly more lenient could be considered.
Plasma Rifle:
For now:
- Base damage: 10: 2000 → 2100; 20: 2400 → 2600
- AoE multiplier: 0,185
either: - Damage scaling: 1,3 → 1,5
or: - Firing interval: 0,200 → 0,160
- Damage scaling: 1,3 → 1,2
or - Whatever viable setup that gives the same DPS
The first damage scaling change is the one I initially planned, the second one was prepared in response to @OneWingLunarian’s suggestion to increase the fire rate.
The overall premise of these changes is to increase the base damage output to something more appropriate for its overheat time, and make first steps to reducing the OP factor of the AoE.
In the future:
As suggested by @fractorial, consider experimenting with damage sharing for the AoE.
Utensil Poker:
- Damage: 375/750 → 325/650
- Firing interval: 0,300/0,280 → 0,258/0,241
Changed in response to complaints about the slow fire rate.
Boron Railgun:
- Damage: B1: 105 (max 194) → 110 (max 203)
Slight low power buff.
Photon Swarm:
- Damage: 120/300 → 100/300
- Fire rate (base/increase): 3,33/1 → 4/0,933
Low power fire rate increase, readjusted regular photon damage. Also bumps up the damage jump back up to 20%.
Positron:
- Damage: 70; 130; 190; 250; 310; 380; 450; 520; 590; 660; 750; 930
- Firing interval: 0,075
- Ramp multiplier: 1,5x
I tried working with splitting, but I can’t really figure out a way to have it balanced. Its multi-hit performance is quite irregular compared to chaining, and the chaining delay only serves to make it less reliable.
Fire rate was increased to 13,33/s to allow for dropping damage per shot to limit the weapon’s ability to one shot enemies on high difficulty without the damage bonus.
It may or may not need an overheat buff further down the line.
Corn Shotgun:
- Damage: B1: 465 → 475
- Fire rate (base/increase): 1,45/0,255 → 1,55/0,245
A slight damage buff and low power fire rate increase.
Absolver Beam:
- Damage (uncharged): 130 - 1080; 1300
- Damage (full): 2600 - 21600; 26000
- Damage sharing: 0,675
- Initial heat cost: 0,08
- Heat drain rate: 0,07
The numbers might be ugly, but at least it kinda works. The next step after this would be to see how much it’d benefit from overdrive.
That’s it for now. The overdrive section will be posted at a later date, assuming I can find the time and energy to write it out.
Sheets: v55 - Google Drive
S1 contains: 5/s Plasma, Neutron DPS approximation, and a failed attempt at balancing Positron with splitting.
S2 contains: 6,25/s Plasma, Neutron volley rework, initial Laser volley rework, max damage splitless Positron.
14 Likes