WBP: further weapon balance suggestions (+ test excel sheets)

advantages of moron:
best weapon!1111!11!!
really long overheat
damage isnt a problem, take your time
literally over 30% weapon virtuosity bonus
also if you think its underpowered, its a starter weapon, what do you expect

1 Like

Whatever man
I think i shouldn’t have started this discussion about moron gun

I thought maybe it is just need a small buff to make it perfect but whatever

what moron have what it need,wdym it need a small buff
also what the small buff that moron need

In damage
Nvm man

Well in that case the two beams on :zap: 6 - :zap:10 should be closer together to that they have a better chance at converging onto a single target. I’ve played with the bombers and their twin bolts and on bombers, they’re pretty much parallel to each other and the two bolts often converge onto a single target, making it much better against tanky enemies than the two diverging bolts on the other ships.

I’d still try to buff lightning by increasing its firerate to 6.25/s so that it packs more DPS, cause it’s in general kinda mediocre in power.

This one is a longstanding issue, but riddler and corn shotgun have pretty extreme recoil which makes waves with limited space way too difficult for bombers. Such a nerf is not even warranted for those two weapons since they’re not exactly the top of the tree in terms of DPS. Can their recoil be reduced in half? It’s that extreme IMO.

3 Likes

I’ve prepared another batch of changes and suggestions. Excel sheet linked at the bottom.

Feedback regarding the Corn Shotgun spread change

After some testing, it seems to be kind of a mixed bag. While the change did help with reducing Corn’s overall randomness, it also causes the volleys to become overall too unfocused. Since it is no longer possible for a volley with several projectiles near the center to occur, the effectiveness of the weapon against small tanky targets (especially at range) and even some bosses has dropped, and it has trouble with punching through columns of enemies.

Otherwise, its general performance remains unchanged, but I and a few others reckon that it should be changed again. It could either be reverted to the old way it worked (cubic distribution), or the cone could be divided up into uneven slices in such a way that the volley is denser in the middle.

What to do about Corn Shotgun’s spread?
  • Keep current
  • Revert to cubic distribution
  • Divide the spread cone into uneven slices to focus projectiles towards the middle (or some other solution that’d give a similar result)

0 voters

Corn Shotgun overdrive

By now, Corn has pretty much solidified its position as the least popular weapon out of the entire roster. Probably the most significant factor that has been contributing to this is its complete incompatibility with overdrive. While this arguably will become less relevant with overdrive being moved to being a booster ability, I think it’s safe to say that Corn would still really benefit from being able to use it.
I’d like to suggest giving Corn the ability to use overdrive while below full heat. Entering popcorn mode would automatically disable overdrive and prevent it from being engaged again until the weapon has cooled down.

Laser Cannon adjustment

Damage: 250/500/750/1000 → 225/450/675/900
Interval: 0.270/0.245 → 0.243/0.220

Simply multiplying the damage and intervals by 0.9 to increase its rate of fire. Since it’s taking me so long to get around to continuing the rework post, I figured that it’s high time to give Laser a little something to help it out at least a bit.

Plasma Rifle’s effectiveness against feathers

@Recruit_75 has voiced a complaint about Plasma’s lackluster performance against feathers. After further discussion, I’d like to suggest slightly increasing the AoE’s knockback against them.

Adjustments to low power overheat boost

I have made some further adjustments to low power overheat values, keeping in mind the feedback I received last time. The primary objective was to make the boosts more consistent across the board. Some weapons do still get a reduction to the boost, but a less extreme one than suggested before. Several have their :zap:0 value increased and/or have increased overheat time on more levels than before.
The logic behind the specific numbers is as follows:

  • Weapons with a constant hitrate gain +0.5s for each level below :zap:4 (+2s on :zap:0)
  • Weapons with either variable firerate or projectile count gain +0.5s for each level below :zap:5 (+2.5s on :zap:0)
  • Weapons with both variable firerate and projectile count gain +0.6s for each level below :zap:5 (+3s on :zap:0)

Exceptions:

  • Moron Railgun is treated as a weapon with constant firerate since it only gets increased on its last two power levels, and the damage per volley stops changing at that point.
  • Lightning Fryer still does its own thing, since its hitrate gets doubled on :zap:6. It gets +1.5s on :zap:5 and +0.25s for each level under that. :zap:6 takes the average value between :zap:5 and :zap:7 so that there’s no weird drop in damage until overheat.
  • Laser Cannon’s overheat hasn’t been tweaked in this file, since I haven’t proposed the volley rework yet. Currently, it needs every little bit of extra overheat time it can get, so the values it has are fine.
  • Absolver Beam doesn’t currently support per-level values for overheat, so it remains unchanged.

Overheat multipliers for Absolver Beam

Related to the above. Since Absolver’s row of overheat values in the excel sheet doesn’t currently do anything, I’d like to propose making these values work as per-level multipliers to the initial heat cost and heat drain rate. This would allow giving it a lower overheat rate on low power, as is the case with the rest of the weapons.


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/702487693636010054/938892439551377488/CIU-WeaponData-v101.override.xls

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Fat +1 on this one. It feels just awful that you can’t overdrive with this gun at all. I think even if we slap the overdrive until max heat on it, it ain’t gonna be more powerful than regular weapons with overdrive anyway. The popcorn mode is kinda a double edged sword because it lets you keep firing with lower damage, but makes you unable to take advantage of coolants.

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This is a preview of what I have so far:

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nice paintjob bro

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Definitely seems like an improvement. I think the effect could be just a little bit stronger, but I’d need to try it out for myself to know for sure. Looks good in my opinion.

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I’ve made this change, however we now have 4 weapons (Ion, Neutron, Laser, Hyper) with very similar firing intervals (0.220, 0.240, 0.243, 0.200), which I think hurts diversity. e.g., If you recall back in CI2, there was perceptible difference between Ion, Neutron, and Laser.

I’ve increased knockback by 50%, however also think it’s OK for certain weapons to have poor performance against feathers (especially if those weapons are otherwise top-tier)

Changed.

I’ve made the change (WBP: further weapon balance suggestions (+ test excel sheets) - #105 by InterAction_studios), however I think that excessive predictable clumping at long ranges does not fit well with this weapon’s spirit, which is (as with most shotguns) “ineffective at long range”.

Done

I tried this (and it worked), but it messed up the Excel charts. On second thought, I don’t really like this hack and I’m running out of time until the update tomorrow, so I’m leaving it as-is for now.

6 Likes

Acknowledged. I don’t think it matters much for Hyper, since its firerate changes as its firepower increases, but Utensil does fit into this range instead.
For Laser, this is a temporary change. I intend to boost its firerate significantly (beyond Ion’s) with the volley rework partially for this reason.

I really welcome the new changes to corn shotgun. Now it’ll have relatively consistent spread, along with focused fire on the middle, and overdrive.

With that being said, can there also be changes made to Lightning fryer?

It was suggested

why bump

Damage bump

That was GgWw’s suggestion, not mine.

And yes lightning could still use those buffs I mentioned.

I just remind you

(Gonna drive into off topic here ig)
Its kinda funny when he disagreed my idea and changed his mind about changing Vulcan damage.


6 month later:

(Atleast he does included the Base Overheat time)