CIU weapon balance program - Part 7: Vulcan Chaingun & Hypergun

[Neutral]

@1galbatorix1, I noticed something. You never talked about store prices in your series. Will you adress that in the last post? (Ex: What if a weaker weapon ends up being stronger (DPS) than another one that is currently higher in price?)

[1galbatorix1]

@Neutral

I noticed something. You never talked about store prices in your series. Will you adress that in the last post?

Yes, I will

[Enhawk]

Crap that sounds like a lecture.

[Neutral]

of course not.

[GgWw1175]

So I was going to wait with this until part 11, but I figured I might as well talk about it now (even if it is technically an off-topic matter). I have some issues with the Plasma Rifle rebalance, or more specifically, the visual redesign part.

I believe you made an oversight regarding the bugs that the Plasma Rifle suffers from, and as a result attributed these bugs to Plasma Rifle’s automatic firing mode.

(If beam is no longer automatic, current bugs regarding automatic fire will not exist)

Well, here’s the thing. I’ve tested the Plasma Rifle, Lightning Fryer and Positron Stream, in both automatic and manual fire, against the Planetary Egg City in CI4 (and some other waves in Universe) and came to the conclusion that these bugs are not at all tied to Plasma Rifle’s automatic mode, but instead to the autolock system itself.

They aren’t exclusive to Plasma Rifle either, Lightning Fryer and Positron Stream are also susceptible (although usually less noticeably with Positron Stream due to its high firerate).

There are two big problems with autolocking:

1. Enemies getting damaged while the beam is locked onto another enemy, even if said enemies aren’t in contact with the beam (or, in some cases, are nowhere near the beam at all).

Screenshots

2. Enemies crossing the beam while it is locked onto another enemy.

Screenshots

So actually, such a redesign would not solve the problem at all. The bugs would still be present, even with manual fire.

---

This covers the technical side of things, but you also argued for the change in another way.

The gameplay=/=visuals problem can be solved in two ways. By remaking the gameplay to match visual design, or the other way around. First option would be good, but there is a problem. We already have Positron Stream. If Plasma Rifle’s gameplay was changed to match its visual design, we would end up with two identical guns with different statistics, and this should never be the case. So the only option left is to rework visuals to match gameplay.

You have a point, but I don’t really think it’s a big deal. They’re visually similar but not identical and, in my opinion, there are enough visual differences between them that we could easily keep them as they are now. Besides that, the style of gameplay would still differ mainly due to a huge difference in firerate.

If @InterAction_studios can figure out a way to fix the autolocking (which would be the preferred solution, since the bugs also affect all other autolocking weapons and can potentially get you killed in some situations), I’d suggest scrapping the visual redesign stuff and just swapping the automatic and manual firerates instead (making manual 5/s and automatic 6.5/s).

[1galbatorix1]

Hmm, the autolock bugs indeed seem to be more extensive than I initially thought. I have seen some of those bugs here and there, but in my experience they frequently appeared only when using Plasma Rifle on automatic fire. When using Plasma Rifle manually i rarely noticed any. That’s why I think(thought) that the visual redesign may also help a bit in this aspect.

But from evidence you provided here it just looks like the whole autolock system needs a solid rework/improvement.

@GgWw1175

If @InterAction_studios can figure out a way to fix the autolocking (which would be the preferred solution, since the bugs also affect all other autolocking weapons and can potentially get you killed in some situations), I’d suggest scrapping the visual redesign stuff and just swapping the automatic and manual firerates instead (making manual 5/s and automatic 6.5/s).

I agree that the autolocking fix is the best solution, but I don’t think that this would make my visual redesign irrevelant. The main point of that suggestion was to make Plasma Rifle and Positron Stream more distinct visually and gameplay-wise. Swapping Plasma Rifle’s manual and automatic fire rates would basically make it a copy of Positron Stream with a bit different graphics and slower fire rate. I don’t think we need more than one auto-locking single-beam weapon. I think it would be better to just delete one of them from the game.(Preferably Postron Stream, bcs idk… It’s less “cool” xd)

But what we don’t have in game right now is a manual autoaim thunder-like weapon. And I think reworking Plasma Rifle visually is a great opportunity to get one. Besides, I see that in general, people seem to like Plasma Rifle’s manual gameplay, because it provides some utility for Pecking Order bonuses. Turning this weapon into a automatic weapon similar to Positron Stream, could potentially kill/harm that functionality.

[anon27929001]

@1galbatorix1

But what we don’t have in game right now is a manual autoaim thunder-like weapon.

Um…lightning fryer?

[1galbatorix1]

Ehh, by lighning-like I meant the single shot zaps firing mode. Like real life lightnings work. (They aren’t a continous stream of energy. They are powerful single zaps that happen in matter of miliseconds.)

Lightning Fryer, well is inspired by lightnings but it shares the same automatic autoaim beam model as Positron Stream. And it’s not the lightning-like firing mode I am talking about.

[anon27929001]

Eh,fair enough,though lightning fryer isn’t exactly automatic. Its manual fire is slightly better than automatic fire.

[1galbatorix1]

Ikr, but that’s a topic for another day. It’s case is similar to Plasma Rifle’s. Visually automatic and gameplay-wise not so much.

[GgWw1175]

@1galbatorix1

I don’t think we need more than one auto-locking single-beam weapon. I think it would be better to just delete one of them from the game.(Preferably Postron Stream, bcs idk… It’s less “cool” xd)

Before you released part 3 I was actually going to suggest making Positron Stream be able to hit several enemies at once, but in the end decided against it mainly because it wouldn’t be very original (seriously, how many games are there that have a weapon like this?). Besides, imagine just how broken it would be with the current homing system in place.
Though I suppose it would be fitting, considering how the stream bends.

Modifying Plasma Rifle to this extent seems pretty much heretical to me, especially since it’s older than Positron Stream, but on the other hand Positron Stream does seem to fit the ‘continuous homing beam’ template better.
Frankly, I’m kinda wondering why Positron was even created in the first place. And why it needed its own weapon group.

[1galbatorix1]

@GgWw1175

Frankly, I’m kinda wondering why Positron was even created in the first place. And why it needed its own weapon group.

Good Question. But what was done cannot be undone (Unless we count removing Positron Stream as an option), so I still stick to my original Plasma Rifle suggestion. Everyone uses it manually anyways, so I don’t think making it “official” is a heresy tbh.

[Enhawk]

Hey,Positron Stream is pretty good.

[InterAction_studios]

Hypergun changes made in v.48 Idea

• Projectile damage is now 150/300.
• Fixed volley progression as per WBP.
• Automatic firing rate now equals manual rate.
• Max power: Increased firing period to 0.110s, increased overheat time to 6.6s.

[InterAction_studios]

Vulcan changes in v.48 Idea

• Projectile damage: 100/250/350

[trueuser]

thank god we didn’t stuck at plasma

[trueuser]

vulcan