Are you satisfied with the reworks done so far?

Before I start, allow me to clarify - “reworks” include all changes ranging from tiny to full-on rebalancing. I said this to avoid getting comments like “Lightning Fryer was never rebalanced/reworked”. I know that. But it did get a new feature that is currently being tested.

First and foremost - Lightning Fryer’s chaining mechanic. What are your thoughts on it? What could be done to improve the mechanic alone? All kinds of propositions are welcome.

  • I’m overall satisfied with the current chaining mechanic
  • Chaining needs a change (reply)

0 voters

Personally I have no ideas. Note that LF DPS/etc. changes are NOT the same as changes to chaining.

Second - Ion Blaster. Pretty satisfied with it, although I’m still waiting for that sunny day when IA would buff the weak projectiles from 150 to 175 (edited).

  • I share the same opinion.
  • I think Ion Blaster is perfect right now.
  • Other (reply)

0 voters

Third - Utensil Poker and Neutron Gun. They mostly got minor changes, but these are the two weapons that IA did an amazing job with so far in my opinion.

  • I think they’re great now as well.
  • Maybe they need a change (reply)

0 voters

And finally - Plasma Rifle and Positron Stream. Yes, I’m fully aware they’re not reworked yet, but I’d like to hear thoughts on them and ideas to improve them. It seems that IA isn’t following Galbatorix’s instructions for these two ver batim (some make it in, others don’t), but that’s fine by me so long as the weapons end up being useful.

Please write detailed replies. Reading them is one of the most exciting things I can do during the pandemic.

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Chaining needs to be more… easily triggered, I guess. I want to see the chains go everywhere, not just “bouncing”. I think the “chain vs split” distinction is enough for the time being.

Positron is great at the moment.

Plasma is still getting rebalanced so I don’t want to comment yet.

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Ion is good enough as it is.

Lightning Fryer’s chaining is kinda situational. Using it in a wave where there’s a ton of cowards or slobs might just put you in deeper trouble than you already are. A damage buff would help, considering it requires auto fire to actually chain.

Neutron and Utensil have switched roles. (not really but Utensil is no longer it’s old mighty self. Still pretty powerful though)

About Plasma… The lowered fire rate is kinda awkward for some people, including myself. Though the damage it currently does is capable of one-shotting almost everything at Max Power. I honestly would like the old manual firerate back, even if it does get a damage nerf.

As for Positron, it’s now a lot better than it once was. Hell, I would even swap out Plasma to use it. The splitting is actually pretty okay. It helps to clear some easy waves much faster in Space Race, though it would need some accuracy. Otherwise, against a single giant thing, it’s kinda bleh. I’d use Plasma over it in that situation.

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I agree, but Neutrons overheat faster and don’t spread, so there’s still a reason for players to choose between the two weapons in missions.

Agreed, but a damage nerf might not be necessary. Also we’re getting the old manual fire rate back in v.44.

Could use a tiny damage buff tbh but overall I agree.

Yeah, that’s the point of having balanced weapons - some are perfect here, others are perfect there.

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Yeah I’m aware of that. It never overheats too, so that’s a bonus. Though I don’t mind the nerf as long as I can use it comfortably.

Eh, I think the splitting is sufficient for a “damage buff”. By the time you kill the front lines, the back lines are probably already weakened enough by the splits to usually be taken out in a rather quick fashion.

To be honest, I’m fine with this. The weapon should be good, but not “is it as good as Utensil”. Though I can understand using utensil as a base. This is also why I think the current ion is fine as it is. Increasing the regular bullet damage to 200 seems a little… Too much? Isn’t 150 already a good enough upgrade? :thinking:

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Ions are still not the best for elite missions, they’re rather under-performing there, and like Galbatorix said, there is little to no reason for him to pick Ions over Utensils on elite missions.
Ion Blaster is great on easier missions, even hard missions, just not on elite missions. If 200 is too much perhaps 175 would be good enough as well.

Let me make a salvo & DPS table, I’ll come back in a bit.

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It’s fine. I’ve seen Sophodot’s.

175 is decent enough. 200 seems a litttttle too much. 2900 per shot at max power would mean that it’s stronger than Neutron if used correctly. 175 would make it 2650, which is at least good enough.

As for Utensil’s Nerf, it means that neutron is now stronger if used properly. But Utensil’s more on spread than forward-firing, so it’s a little more on the balanced side. Neutron is good for bum rushing bosses.

Reply to bottom post:
No, but I can kinda make a rough calculation, so it’s okay.

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With 175 projectile damage?

I’ll just calculate the max DPS only then. One second.

New DPS would be 17,225‬.

Not sure how iA would rework Photon Swarm. Is he going to give them homing bullets like I sorta suggested before in discord? Or is he giving them the chance of supercharged bullets + extra bullets? If we’re lucky, both, though it’s no guarantee.

But I think giving Photon Swarm homing projectiles would greatly improve it’s use, though it would mean it can target unwanted objects, like UCO arms.

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Lightning Fryer needs a chaining rework, it’s pretty weird when sometimes it chains backwards instead of forwards, maybe make it chains only forwards and the sides but it can chain and split deeper?
About Ion Blaster, it’s okay right now but it needs a damage buff
And Neutron Gun and Untensil Poker, they’re fine right now.

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Well, overall the Lightning Fryer is ok, the ion blaster’s small bullets should be buffed indeed, and the neutron gun became my favorite weapon after its rework.

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I feel Position Stream is a little OP with chicken crowds

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Positron is nice, maybe it could use a teeny-tiny damage buff because splitting makes it already rather useful, but it’s garbage on boss battles.

A solution I propose is to make Positron split on the same hitbox, which would be determined by the hitbox’s size - if its radius is, for example, greater than 250, allow splitting on the same hitbox. That way Positron will become more useful against bosses.

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As far as LF’s chaining (or rather bouncing) is concerned, I think that the mechanic overall works fine, but it should be made more lenient. Though just to what extent depends on the final base damage output.

As for the Plasma Rifle, I think the next iteration is gonna fall flat. It increases the already very high damage per hit to the point where it’s going to be absolutely overkill for most normal enemies. Really, it would only be viable for bosses, except it won’t be with just a 50% damage bonus. 16500 DPS is too low for a 5s overheat.
If it was +75%, then on :zap:20 we’d have 19250 DPS. And while that’s more acceptable, it’s pretty much of no help in normal waves. Once again, only really viable for boss rushes. Which is why I previously suggested increasing the automatic rate of fire instead of base damage.

Aside from that, I think it’s kinda weird that IA insists that the Plasma Rifle should be automatic, but at the same time wants to keep manual fire seemingly equally as useful.

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Ion Blaster, it always spread, so there’s almost no way to get 100% damage output from it. Current damage is still less, even though you already harassed your finger, than comparable counterparts, Neutron and Utensil which are better. I agree that 200 is too much, 175 may acceptable.

I think Lightning’s chain mechanic is weird, I don’t know how it works, but it’s weird. I’d rather make it chains more as it gets hotter. It would make the mechanic easier to understand and attract people to use auto-fire. I don’t like current damage progression, but I also don’t agree with Galbatorix introducing 3 bolts before max level, because an extra bolt will MAKE HUGE DIFFERENCE even though the damage is totally same. If it were me, I will keep current bolt’s count, and damage adjustment is enough.

As for Plasma, I don’t think auto-fire’s bonus damage is enough to appeal than never heating manual fire.

Positron, if I guessed correctly, its damage progression isn’t changed? Because in high difficulty, its damage is very underwhelming

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But it would only be a bigger difference if it was added later on. It’s 100 extra damage added early on, which is not that big of a deal, vs 250 damage added in the last power level. It would probably underperform again, too. And it would still not gain that big of a boost from bombers.

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Think about it more like a ricochet than a chain. It pretty much bounces off at an angle.

Galbatorix’s progression would work fine with galbatorix’s chaining system. But I agree it’s not a good idea to use it with this one.
I could try to come up with an adjustment to the current progression (since my progression with 4 bolts at :zap:20 didn’t really gain much traction, and may not be viable due to issues with visibility).

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The faster overheat of the Neutron is holding it back from truly supplanting Utensil Poker.
Right now, it actually has better DPS than Utensil Poker at :zap:10 and :zap: 20, the two longest and most important power levels in the game. Still, I tend to use UP a lot more often due to its slower overheat.

Ion’s decent, I’d say. On some occasions like pushing Henterprise feathers, it outperforms even Utensil Poker and Riddler, it can hold it’s own against UP and Neutron when it comes to fighting these guys, the ordinary chickens:
Ordinary Chicken
They don’t hold up as well when it comes to fighting these guys tho:
Metal-suit Chicken (Military) Metal-suit Chicken
And god forbid that you have to use ion against these guys:
CowardChicken SlobChicken

So yes, I agree with sufi, that Ion still has problems especially on elite missions, not only due to the increased health of enemies, but also due to the proliferation of Metal Suited Chickens, Cowards and Slobs, not to mention Chickenauts, Armored Eggships and Chick Gatling Guns.


So this is what I had to say about the lightning fryer in version 38. Since v38, the chaining mechanic has been improved, having said that, it’s still not as reliable as manual spam fire, which offers better dps than automatic without chaining as well as much longer if not infinite time before overheating.

This is the real foil to the new lightning fryer. In fact, many of the remakes somehow make fighting them even more challenging. Along with the WBP, there should also be another program to balance chicken breeds.

This is what I have to say about Plasma Rifle right now. Please for the love of god, never use V43 Plasma on Supernova, only pain awaits you…

I agree with you. The splitting mechanic mas made positron stream a lot more viable in normal chicken waves, it’s also a lot better at pushing Henterprise Feathers, however, it’s performance against bosses is straight up bad.
Now you might be thinking, what about Bossa Nova, well it doesn’t perform as well as you would hope for since the debris of Bossa Nova orbit and thus move around the main boss itself, meaning that the splitting mechanic only has a few seconds to take effect before the debris has moved to such an angle where the splitting mechanic doesn’t work anymore. This cycle repeats for each debris getting targeted by the Positron Stream and is broken only when the Bossa Nova decides to use its debris and give you an opening.

So overall, while there has been definite improvements made on weapons, I’d say that there’s still more work to do in order to make certain weapons more viable.

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Ion Blaster, eh, I’m fine with it, but indeed it needs a damage buff, like what Sufi said, weak bullet should do 175 dmg instead of 150.

As for Plasma, it seems pretty fine, except for it’s awkward fire rate, which made it hard to use. it will retain it’s old fire rate in v.44.

As for Positron, it is indeed cool, but its damage needs to be changed.

As for the Neutron, it became my favorite weapon since its rework.

As for the Forks, I felt a little sad when it was nerfed way lower than what i expected.

As for the chaining of lighting fryer, it’s kinda tricky and hard to use, i even see that it’s hard to use.

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Lightning Fryer Chaining is kinda kinky and weird to the majority of players, including me. I agree with Celestial’s opinion
Plasma has weaken in v43 but will return as the ultimate weapon in v44
Neutron is better now. I’d like to consider changing weapons
Positron is good

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